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 thoughts on flame colour

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tritowns



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PostSubject: thoughts on flame colour   Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:53 pm



my friend Dan and some thoughts on flame colour
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T2H
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PostSubject: Re: thoughts on flame colour   Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:05 pm

embedding is disabled on this video man because of the way you have it set up, your not allowing embedded player.
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PostSubject: Re: thoughts on flame colour   Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:12 pm

Watched the video, and yes I think we all can get along.

However in my opinion you pointed out exactly what is taking place in part to obtain a blue flame which indicates a more pure gas, yes due to more oxygen mixture.

There are plenty of guys who have seized up their engines with nice orange flames, so far I have not heard of any seizing up with nice blue flames, if there are I would be interested in knowing about them in the interest of research.
Thanks for posting your thoughts, I think you just proved the point about having a leaner gas and why, so that may be the area to explore more to obtain as clean as a gas possible.
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tritowns



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PostSubject: Re: thoughts on flame colour   Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:41 pm

you don't want oxygen in your wood gas as it will burn long before it gets to your engine. gasser opinion is orange is soot don't know if that is true or not... yellow flame, i would worry about.

i didn't flare at the start of our experiments in wood gas, if it couldn't run an engine i couldn't be worried about colour.

carbon monoxide, hydrogen, methane all burn with different colours. if you only have one colour i think it would suggest incomplete reduction. transparency of flame would be more important than colour any day of the week to me.
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tritowns



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PostSubject: Re: thoughts on flame colour   Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:15 am

you may notice in my video's i tend not to talk... the reason for that is they are purely for documenting what i have done.

This video was take just after completion of our pre production unit... I will mention here that the reduction are internally is totally wrong and that it is way under pulled... this unit it this form is making tar... I know this for fact... just didn't brag about it, as i was able to fix the problems.

it flares pretty blue flame... would stick up an engine if I try to run it like this though.

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Rebootag



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PostSubject: Re: thoughts on flame colour   Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:04 pm

tritowns, may I ask if this is due to not enough filtering?

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tritowns



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PostSubject: Re: thoughts on flame colour   Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:36 am

no no, this was very well filtered... just way under pulled... if the system isn't hot enough internally you'll make tar, and no matter what anyone says, you aren't going to filter that tar out... just the way it is...
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PostSubject: Re: thoughts on flame colour   Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:39 am

ahh yes... I've come across that issue in the research I'm doing...

I see volume throughput must meet a certain criteria to maintain optimal temperatures... Thanks for responding.
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tritowns



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PostSubject: Re: thoughts on flame colour   Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:17 am

turndown ratio... a gassers ability to go from full output to minimum output and back... but also includes what % that minumum output will be. most hobbiest systems are in the 2/1 to 4/1 area... a good system may be 5/1 to 8/1 i am told that there have been systems that have hit 20/1 to 22/1 but they are highly specalized. knowing what your minimum and maximum gas requirement are can help you decide how complex a system needs be and how much internal hearth insulation is required.
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Rebootag



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PostSubject: Re: thoughts on flame colour   Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:30 am

thank you for that lil tidbit... I am getting the parts together... and doing some visualization with different pieces... better ideas are forming.. :)

I will get some pics up soon and I'd like to ask your opinion(s) of what you think is best..

some base info... I have agen set (rated 6200 watts max) and am told its a 12 - 14 hp motor.

runs great on gas (did before the newer fuels messed up up the carb.. not paying $130 for a rebuild kit on something plan to do away with anyway :) )

anyway... I plan to produce 1500 - 2000 watts (1.5 - 2kw) steadily... with maxes of 3kw...

I have some 8" stainless insulated chimney pipe and an old pot belly stove as well as a brake rotor I plan to employ. I think the surface are exit I've calculated is around 12 sq inches based on everything I can find info wise (and my interpretation :) )

so I guess from what you said above... 1.5 -3kw falls in that 2/1 - 4/1 range...

also... since its a generator... it will run steady 3600 rpms...

I wonder, as I think here... How much will load change affect flow through the gasifier assuming no rpm change... or very little... ?

Pics to come of pieces.. cheers!
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tritowns



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PostSubject: Re: thoughts on flame colour   Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:52 am

3600 rpm no load and under load are two different animals.... under load will use a lot more gas.

check out my gasser math thread... and please, do yourself a favour and not build a fema clone.

2 - 3 kw is very doable... how you plumb your system into your genset will have an impact to it de rating. on the tractors i have built i have noticed less power loss by no going through the existing carb. you won't have that problem if you are doing away with your genset carb to begin with. but, you will need to work out a govenor/throttle in its place
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tritowns



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PostSubject: Re: thoughts on flame colour   Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:55 am

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Rebootag



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PostSubject: Re: thoughts on flame colour   Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:12 am

i could hug you... :)

Quote :
and please, do yourself a favour and not build a fema clone.

dont worry.. already hear about FEMA's nefarious plans to stick engines up.. grin

Now that you mention it... I plan to "ignore" the carb rather than try to rework the governor. When I looked at it... it seemed like a more complicated thing to manage at the moment. I probably will remove it and "upgrade" later on... but I have a running engine in good shape and want to get str=arted under those conditions... rather than try to diagnose multiple issues at once on a new system... (yep... been there before... lol)

thanks for the advice... time to take model numbers and run google searches for volume... :grin:


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tritowns



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PostSubject: Re: thoughts on flame colour   Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:54 am

you do want to have some form of butterfly or easy turv valve hooked up to the govenor so that the engine will respond to generator load. its not as complicated as it sounds, just a matter of thinking it out. i have used a bigger carb ( air passages blocked off) as a woodgs control valve.... lots of work around... you just don't want all the venturi nonsense to limit gas flow. hope that makes sense
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tritowns



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PostSubject: Re: thoughts on flame colour   Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:18 pm



this is what i would build if i was starting now...
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Rebootag



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PostSubject: Re: thoughts on flame colour   Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:33 pm

Quote :
you just don't want all the venturi nonsense to limit gas flow. hope that makes sense

yes... perfect sense... thank you...
yes, a larger carb modified, or perhaps just spec up some piping... :)
thanks for the image as well... that will help a lot!

:)
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tritowns



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PostSubject: Re: thoughts on flame colour   Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:36 pm

i typically use modified ball valves as carbs
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Rebootag



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PostSubject: Re: thoughts on flame colour   Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:51 pm

haha!

that was my plan... :)

how about a valve size ratio air/ gas? :)
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tritowns



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PostSubject: Re: thoughts on flame colour   Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:13 pm

lol... yeah sure. find out your genset's intake opening size use as close to that or a little bigger for the wood gas carb, calculate it's cross sectional opening area... your air mixture valve's cross sectional area should be arould half of that.

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PostSubject: Re: thoughts on flame colour   Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:26 pm

graet tip!!! thank you!
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Rebootag



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PostSubject: Re: thoughts on flame colour   Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:55 am



so the 30 deg and 45 deg angled cylinders are nozzles right?
and is that specifying an 8.oo inch reduction zone total?
and a 4" throat / fire tube?

Thanks for this image... been looking at it... then running it through my head.. :)
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tritowns



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PostSubject: Re: thoughts on flame colour   Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:47 am

the upper hot well area is a 3" tube the plate under it has a 2" restriction. the reduction tube hanging on the bottom of that is a 4" tube... the grate is suspended by treaded rod coming up from the bottom.

the nozzles are as you say the angled tubes I believe he used 3 on top and just one on the bottom. the main tube is built from 6" exhaust tube... it's very simple to get something started so you can learn.
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PostSubject: Re: thoughts on flame colour   Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:00 am

ahhh!!! thanks for the explanation.. ws a little hard to understand in 2 dimensions... :)

ok... I think the setup I'm mulling over in my head will work pretty well with that concept...

thank you so much!
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