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 new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)

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aravaron



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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:05 am

caotropheus, the area of the air wash that gets in is bigger then the area thats coming out to the glass. but theres one thing i did that im not sure was so good- in the place where the primary air goes inside the square tube i open a hole only the size of 2cm*4cm , and all the air is forced to go through that little window. maybe its wrong..
but im thinking of create a new door with an independent air system that will add more air volume to the stove
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aravaron



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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:10 am



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gadily
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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:38 am

nice ash box and fire grate

you may find on usage you may need a thicker fire grate as other grates burn out due to the heat stored on top of them

other thing i will mention make sure the ash box is sealed otherwise you will get air entering from underneath the ashes a good thing in some cases but not all cases
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aravaron



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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:27 pm

the fire grate is made of 10mm thick full pipe - you think i need to use a thicker grate?
and right now everything is pick weld- but it will be air tight!
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caotropheus
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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:59 pm

In my opinion, you can leave the grate de way it is. If it burns with time, build a new one next year. This is what I do in my stoves, every year I repair the grate with new rebar (ברזל ביניין).

when you refer "...made of 10mm thick full pipe..." I think you want to to say "10 mm rod" (מוט ברזל), right?
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aravaron



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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:05 pm

Yes... rod.
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2ndburn

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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:54 am

study


Last edited by 2ndburn on Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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aravaron



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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:13 am

2ndburn- i translated your message to english to understand what you wanted to say.. :) this google translator is not so good..
but from what i did understand is when i will remove the ash pan for cleaning- ash will fall and i wil not be able to put it back. right?
i made a 3mm space between the rods i think this will allow a small parts of ash to fall down and when i'll clean the drawer i'll have time to put it back. also i think that i will clean it before the burning and not while its working.
right now im stuck. im waiting to buy a high temp fire sealant 1200c.. only in few more days i will have it
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caotropheus
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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:53 am

scratch !"לך תבין את "גוגל תרגם
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2ndburn

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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:54 am

Hi Ron.

..my Apologies
Thank you for understanding the message. I will stop using the google translator, as it is not so good at translating. silent
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aravaron



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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:40 pm

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caotropheus
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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:10 pm

Nice progress. You are right about the air control for the primary air. I suggest you test the stove with your current air control and only then if needed, change it. Your idea of putting a bolt for better control, may help solve the problem. If you use a long bolt with some extra weight added to the bolt's head it may create enough momentum to shut the door close. If it does not work, take a look at the way I build the air control for my stoves.
Again, before you assemble the stove, I suggest you make the secondary air control independent from the primary air. When your stove gets hot, you want to restrict a lot the primary air and keep the secondary air fully open to maintain high temperatures and burn as less wood as possible. Think about it, before you assemble everything.
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aravaron



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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:16 pm

Yes i understand it. Im still thinking where to place it..
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gadily
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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:23 am

good work also ive got to ask how big is your door air slits as you didnt say when you was showing it

with your hinges id just give it a crack on the hinge itself as needs stiffening up or hitting at the ends of the internal bar so door stiffens up at opening / closing

i prefer spinners method better control of air using them or use a bolt at one side and a slide plate on the other side

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aravaron



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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:40 pm

door for intake - 5cm*20cm * 2 doors = 200cm2

air out - glass door wash - 1.5cm * 30cm * 2 = 90cm2
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aravaron



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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:39 pm





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gadily
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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:00 pm

you have the same problem i had

what i found out is light the fire inside the tube first to get it going as this sucks the smoke into the system tube

i dont know your side gaps but they should be 10mm

http://woodstoves.forumotion.co.uk/t219p30-start-of-my-rs-build

https://www.dropbox.com/s/av6jpjqew3wacfz/20140607_212922.mp4

newspaper lit then wood loaded on top also note this is normal safety glass used in fridges

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5qjy0om9d51lsn8/20140607_085548.mp4

main test

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1xwwyldtldmw6vf/20141005_163724.mp4?dl=0

what i will say is make your shards very thin cut to first light inside of the chimney so it pulls the smoke you should have better pull than me as i have no thermal around my vortex pipe

this vid gives you an idea how thin the wood shards are

https://www.dropbox.com/s/r7d3rqr0j4z72ia/20140625_212539.mp4

you will also note on some of the lightings i spread the wood towards the sides this is so the sides start convecting quickly therefore pushing fresh air into the system the hotter the sides the better it pushes air into your system
edited to include videos and extra info


Last edited by gadily on Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:48 am; edited 2 times in total
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caotropheus
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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:50 pm

Ron,

Nice stove and I am sure that it will work flawless pretty soon.


caotropheus wrote:
Isn't the area for the air wash for the glass bigger then the area of air that gets in?
 It seems that I did not formulated this question well. What I wanted to ask is about the area of the place that you refer as "small air passage" in your third video. It is not big enough to allow the amount of air needed to feed the combustion. I think the air wash and the primary air entrances are big enough for normal operation of this stove, but the "passage" is too small, causing all the smoke problems. So, do not open extra holes in the door, yet!

With an ordinary long chimney, there should be some draft, more than you have now and this should reduce some of the smoke problems. To light the fire, use the system that gadily told you or, just pack newspaper + kindling, light the newspaper, close the door and the stove has to go.

To solve the problem that smoke escapes when you open the door, as a last resource, you can just build a by-pass for smoke and fire to flow directly into the heat exchanger...
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2ndburn

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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:55 am

Hi Ron,
Caotropheus is correct ..the place you refer as "small air passage" in your third video,
Open up "make them wider" from top to bottom.

The same size (volume) as the inlet on the sides of your fire box. This will give you "Full throttle"

Look at ppotys stove again ..see the amount of air volume going in the bottom flaps, is the same volume entering the top of his fire box = no restriction ..but it can be shut off by the flaps on the sides, slowing down the burn time.

Put the Inlet flaps fully open when you light the stove from cold, when you have a good amount of coals and the stove is hot all the way to the chimney, you can slow down the air for a longer burn time.
Remember ..you have a lot of steel to warm up ..its the chimney flue that pulls the draw.

Merry Christmas Ron.  santa  rendeer
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aravaron



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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:30 pm

Merry Christmas ! thanks. today i'll work on it
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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:36 am

Hi aravaron, You are almost there. Like the guys have said you will need to open up the side air entry slots by the door as much as you can to keep the air flow going, I had my main air coming in at the top because the sides of the firebox really heat the air and because super hot air rises very fast it causes a draw within the air passage on mine pulling more air in as it trys to escape from the top. The gap in your slots will be restricting the convection. And as others have said start the fire nearest to the riser first then add wood behind it.
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aravaron



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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:46 pm



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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:20 am

rendeer Hi Ron,

Looking good. From what I see you are almost there.
Put a short piece of 2" tube into the bottom of the door frame to give more "Primary air for combustion" include some way to control this air.

Your "secondary combustion" looks like it's working ok.

I think it is important that you add more primary air to the coals of the fire, a little more oxygen and it will work more efficiently, then the sides of the fire box will become hotter giving you more super heated "secondary combustion".


Also, when you first lit the fire, the part when you put the fire lighter in the chimney, it will help with the draw on the fire if this part was air-tight.

santa
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gadily
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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:54 pm

aravaron wrote:

as you are getting soot and tar on your glass and ive suggested it before you need downdraft over the glass
Modern stoves with glass have an air wash system that allows incoming air to go down over the door, helping to keep the glass clean. Glass is great, but only if you can see through it.

so you have 2 channels either side your front sides are not working so stop at this point and forget about them you need a different push system for that to work correctly

id go back to the downdraft of primary air however im in 2 minds weather to use a different way

do you use one side to push the flames down just by cutting a channel at the top right or top left you choose which is best as this will aid in the push down of the flames so they would go into your secondary burn chamber

from my thinking all it would do if you just did it from the glass it would spiral inside not really going up the chimney but with alot of internal pressure inside it should push up your vortex tube i just see the above method better to push it up into your vortex tube much better

or do you use both sides for glass air wash system to do this you need to create a double channel so id cut out either side of your inner box id cut off your outside side panels better to weld there
create a channel towards the front of the firebox and then down towards the glass

glass is purple the airwash system is blue the burnbox is black this is what id do with your system myself

however if the glass airwash side becomes cold you will lose the airwash system for the glass



i think your side airwash is too big the closer those plates are the better convection you will have which will push more air into the system

you quote 4cm x 2cm for the air wash system, 1cm works much better or less even with a cold system or getting cold when using secondary burn method you need air to push into the system

my main test video above, sides are only 10mm or less away from the ss burnbox the steel sides are only 2mm thick but i have curved them in at the top as gives a much better flick of air into the system than just a square box shape

also i get temp readings of the side metal outer temp readings so is working rather well on convection
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gadily
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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:40 pm

to get your side air wash system to work correctly you need to consider something like this



this system will also work if not using a fan assisted system
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