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 new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)

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aravaron



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Location : southern israel

PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:39 pm

thanks guys! i'll make some progress this weekend i hope.. been thinking on making an oven on the top of the rocket, instead of the plate that there is now, which can be switch between plat and the oven- i'll upload a sketchup that i made for you to see.
also working on a little forge for blacksmithing - my new hobby:)
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aravaron



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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:00 pm

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gadily
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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:03 pm

i would concentrate on whats needed at the moment

first sort out the glass smoke problem then consider using the top as feeding extra fuel before id finally adjust the ash tray box underneath

i wouldnt put a metal part across the top as it ruins the glass design that you was wanting something that i like myself ppotty will get the same problem if he uses a glass door on his design on his new boiler design as i can see trying2hard has the advantage as his first air goes across the glass before into the burn chamber

from my point of view and i could be wrong here is that you need more air coming down over the glass this would aid in clearing the smoke through the fire and also helps in refilling your system from above the 2 lower slits would aid in keeping the coals hot at the bottom of the system
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gadily
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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Fri May 02, 2014 8:46 pm

for the smoke entering the room a bypass plate might be your answer with smoke in the burn box

http://woodstoves.forumotion.co.uk/t379-new-twist-on-old-wood-stove

this has the bypass plate in it to stop the smoke entering the room maybe you could implement it with your build as it might be the cure for it
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aravaron



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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:01 pm

HI !
geek
the summer has finished and we are back in the warehouse !
im uploading a video that shows the RS that i built last winter and talk about the Improvements i want to make- comments\suggestions are welcome !
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aravaron



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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:23 pm

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caotropheus
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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:36 am

Welcome back aravaron. First and foremost, is it my impression or your riser tube is larger in diameter than your chimney? If so, first suggestion is to try to get a chimney at least the same diameter as the riser tube. It will reduce the amount of smoke that escapes when you open the door. Second, make a deeper ash tray to allow all fire passages to be unobstructed and open. Third, reduce the height of the door a bit or even better, make a bypass at the top of the fuel chamber that will allow smoke to go straight to the chimney every time you open the door. Forth, The air wash for the glass does not have to be so big. Make the air wash with the same area as the primary air entrance. It is better for the air wash to be long and thin, rather then bulky and short. Fifth, make a chimney dumper.
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aravaron



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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:01 am

Hi caotropheus. i think that the riser is the same diameter as the chmney if i remember correctly.. i'll chack it tommorow. im planning to built a whole new feed area, it will be rectangle the same size as the door right now. somthing like 40cm tall *25cm width* 30cm depth. the feeding will be from top.
ill make an ashtray somthing like 15cm depth at the bottom of the fire area, that can be taking out like drawer. still im not sure how to make the air wash for the glass which will be in the front .
i didnt understand what you mean about the bypass- the bypass should be the same size as the depth of the fuel chamber?

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gadily
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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:20 am

first thing first sort out your ash collection box either extend it downwards and seal it with a door type stops upward draft below coals but needs some way to empty it out when in full usage without shutting it down

from my viewing you need to create a good downdraft across the glass using 5mm/10mm wide draft spacing and get rid of your side drafts by welding closed at top i would suggest welding a piece in the middle to seperate left and right side the top bar id weld across another piece of steel using a 5mm gap or even 3 if wrong you would need to upgrade it to 5mm or 10mm

door is handy for clean out purposes

the other alternative is to create like ppottys with glass door at the top using the sides to create a nice convection of hot air rising so it pushes down at the bottom



you can test this modification easily if you follow the pics at the bottom of the pic this is what i think you need and from seeing other builds most built fires use a downdraft method some use circular heat method from the gasses the downdraft must be created by 2 plates one at back one at the front and weld up your sides and then test it before the final with the ash box to build and cut out for ashes to drop through
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aravaron



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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:31 am

question - how big the size of the primary air intake? the main body of the rocket is 6" (150mm) . does thee size of the opening for the aiir intake shoulde be the same area? 150*150= 22500?
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aravaron



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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:56 am

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im uploading this picture . still without doors but with air system. imagine a glass door on the front- closed all time. and door on the top to insert wood. i designed the air intake like ppoty's box- from the bottom on two sides the air climbe up between a double wall and enter the reversed L shape tunnel and then going down toward the glass door in the front of the box.
iv'e also add a drawer at the bottom to collect the ashes.

what you guys think?
and what about the size of the air intke in the entrance ?
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gadily
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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:37 am

no your playing with convection of air its different

i used 2" holes or 2 1/2" into a convection system 9x9" you can see with mine it works well using 5mm/10mm air wash

id forget the sides and go with downdraft airwash system before the glass door id try it first on the build you have got now it wont be much usage but  you can experiment before the final new build

with ppottys design glass top airwash at the top will do the same also it can be filled here as well

id just meddle with what ive built allready using different methods first before the final design is used

take a look at google viewer to do with air wash system on wood fires

https://www.google.com/search?q=monoblock+water+boiler&client=firefox-a&hs=C2J&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=np&biw=1280&bih=801&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=iedTVKiPDtGP7Aa5-YCoAw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg#rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=np&tbm=isch&q=wood+burner+air+wash&spell=1&imgdii=_
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caotropheus
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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:43 pm

I would not use fuel top load for an indoors wood stove. You open the lid and most probably, smoke comes out!... I would use a side door to load fuel, the shortest, the better to avoid smoke to come out.
The amount of primary air that you need is proportional to the riser tube area. I do not have an answer to this question but I thing that the primary air entrances area have to be about 15% of the riser tube area. You can always make a bigger primary air intake and restrict air entrance as needed. Do not forget that you have secondary air as well, so, it contributes to the overall air intake. For the air wash to work properly primary air has to be channelled to the top (not the sides) of the glass and from there air has to slide along the glass into the combustion. If you see my latest video, I did this. Lets suppose that you have a primary air entrance of 40 cm2 and that the frame containing the glass is 25 cm wide at the top. The slot that will allow this primary air has to be 25 cm long (along the width of the frame) and 40/25= 1.6 cm wide.
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aravaron



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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:18 am

ok, i agree with you about the feed door that shold be on the side, and shorter the better, but on the other hand - i want to load big amount of wood in one time.
and about the glass air wash- i'll move it to top of the glass.
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2ndburn

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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:52 pm

2ndburn wrote:
Very Happy 
Hi Ron,
I have been looking forward to you returning with your build, It's almost a year.
dec 2013 - I posted:

If I may make some suggestions.
The top of the fire box I would put a lid with a seal, for adding wood. This needs to be smaller than the glass door that you have. This would then stop the smoke from coming out when you need to add more wood. The way you have it now, the air draw is weaker than the door volume.
   
Consider the depth of the fire box. I think it needs to be deeper about 12" from door to the back of the fire box. As this will give you longer burn times.

Fabricate a Grate to stop the fire falling out when you do open the door and so that air can pass under the wood coals.

Fabricate the ash pan so it is under the firebox in a way you can remove it without opening the fire,
it needs to be on the outside and separate from the fire box.
Best regards: Bob.


Last edited by 2ndburn on Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:29 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : update)
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aravaron



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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:21 pm

THANKS 2NDBURN !  i made this sketch yesterday - finnish to plan the rocket stove. tell me what you think.
basically, the fire box is quiet the same as ppoty's except that the air is tunneled to the glass window in front of the box.

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THE AIR SYSTEM

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2ndburn

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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:23 pm

Hi Ron,
In regards to your air entering the same as ppoty's
Tunnelling it to the side as a glass wash,
do you think it will be even.
The hot air may come out more at the top of the door, but I may be wrong.

If when you fabricate the door incorporate an air wash within the door frame. This way you will have more secondary air and you can then balance out both.

Don't have to many slots in the floor of the fire.
Don't have the door going all the way to the floor of the fire. So that you can build up a good amount the coals.


The ash pan must be air tight or you will not have any secondary air wash, and smoke will come from the door.

take care :Bob.
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caotropheus
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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:21 pm

2ndburn may be right in relation to the air wash to be located in the door frame, but I think the way it is planned now is going to make the construction of the stove much more simple and that the air wash will work. Try to make the door not as tall as the fuel chamber to avoid smoke coming out. I also think that with this setup you will have less smoke coming out when you open the door. To be sure that the combustion chamber (square tube connecting to the riser) stays unclogged, you can make it a couple of centimeters taller so it stays clean of fuel and charcoals for air and smoke to flow freely.
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aravaron



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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:22 pm

im using the door that i built last year so its too late to make changes and add the air wash system to the door frame (but not if i finally build a new one)..
and to keep the combustion chamber clean of charcoal - i lowered the whole fire box 8cm down.
2ndburn hekp me to understand it perfectly-



2ndburn- i hope you dont mind im sharing your video..




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aravaron



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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:03 pm

my progress from yesterday

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2ndburn

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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:22 am

Hi Ron,
Very Happy A good seal around the doors so that you get a good secondary air.
Like a Star @ heaven I think this will work very well, looking forward to the first burn.

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gadily
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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:03 am

from your video on noting what your saying on the air wash system id use smaller than going to big straight away 5mm/10mm on your primary air cut

id use this method

ss disc 1s 1mm thickness
normal cutting disc is 3mm
grinding disc is 5mm/6mm

id rather test each cut and burn test to see if it needs changing to add more air dont make the mistake of going too big of a cut first time

i did find with my build 5mm was good enough for the air wash and you could see the flames being pushed away ( downwards in middle ) but your burn box is much bigger
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aravaron



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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:40 pm




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caotropheus
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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:58 pm

Going well. In the first video, you're showing the primary air dispensers build out of square tubing. Isn't the area for the air wash for the glass bigger then the area of air that gets in?
For the secondary air, I would make it independent of the primary air, so the two systems are independent. Often when the stove is hot and you want to save wood, you reduce the amount of primary air going inside and you let the secondary air fully open...
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aravaron



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PostSubject: Re: new rocket stove mass heater (and an not successful old one)   Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:55 pm

ok you right. i'll think of something
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