30 lb propane cylinder rocket heater for small shop

Lizard wrote:

gadily, Here's some measurements on the RH:

Feed tube: 2-5/8" ID x 14" L (going to have an optional removable extension tube to increase the length by 24" for longer pieces of wood to be inserted)
Riser tube: 4" ID x 19-1/2" H
Tank:  12" W x 19-1/2"
Space between riser and top of tank:  1-1/2" (will probably cut an additional 1/2" off the riser)
Space between feed tube and riser:  6-1/2"

im posting this here to aid you on other builds out there

lionheart wrote:

gadily---- I do have the 2 in clearance from my riser to top over barrel lid
             Yes I insulated the riser ( 4 in by 4 in 1/4 think ) with a 6 in stove pipe filled with vermatex ( not spelled right ).
             My drum size is a 14 1/2 in wide by 26 in tall old grease barrel.
Trying2Hard----  I did a longer burn today and got it up to 400 degree's . I do how ever see a problem with not having a ash box or pan as the coals started to interfere with my pull  (draft) on the fire. Remember I only have a 4 by 4 burn tube, thus saying a 5 or 6 by 6 would be better?? My next build will be I think that of a batch style, I like that style.  I was thinking of going toward a pellet stove design, but  since one of you posted a batch stove on here and I liked it, I just dont want to have to tend it every 20 min.
       Dont know when I will start my next build, I will how ever take this experience and take more time in building the next one.  I have 2 tanks on is a small propane and the other is a 30 gal hot water heater tank.  The 30 gal tank is the one I wish to make into a batch/ rockett stove mass heater.
        As for the one I have now, its functional , only because it is a smaller  tube I see the need to have ash pan, but not sure at this time how to go about fixing that.  

         Thank you all for your input now and in the future.  So glad I found this forum.
I live in the west central part of Arkansas, are winters are not that bad compared to other states and countries. My home is 100% electric and I want to start using  wood fired heat in the winter and it would be good as a back up cooking if power goes out.

another quoted comment

lionheart wrote:

Gadliy,  in response to you above,k  I tried caping the feed tube and lighting but smoke comes up the feed tube. I have since then learned how to light a TEMPERMENTAL stove lol. My feed tube is to far from my riser, I can see the flames struggle to travel over the 1/3 length . But it works for know as I will build another, but this time with a fire box instead.  I also like the idea of the waste oil drip in this video,

what would i do at this point i think id shorten the distance between the feeder tube and make the feeder tube bigger as less time in filling the system up

Gadily, I agree with you, I think the flame tube is just too long for the small firebox I currently have on this. If I decided to keep the small firebox then I definitely need to mover it closer to the riser.

I'm going to do 1 more test burn before any cutting on it, for this test I'm going to make sure the bottom of the riser is sealed just in case there's air slipping by from underneath it. If it fails after this last test I'll get the cutting wheel out and start cutting the flame tube, firebox and the feed tube out and redesign them closer to the riser and a bit larger than the current setup.

I'll keep you posted...I'll try to test it tonight after work again.

same as yours just smaller between the riser

take note of what he does the riser is 21 1/2"







for what i see via those vids is the limit of 3" away from the riser tube using a 4" feeder tube possibly the maximum away could be 6" if they was sealed up

however with a jtube it works fine with an 11" secondary air tube as long as you have a high vortex tube but using a smaller one you dont have enough pull on the vortex tube

after your testing id consider opening your system up to 4" wide ive marked your pics where i would do it id cut the whole lot off at the front soz to be brutal here 3" or 4" is better than your 2 3/4" box section





now because you already have 2 3/4" tubing into the vortex chamber now its possible to reduce into that opening from 4" but the flames have to go high into it

id consider doing something like this



the red is the grate
grey is the optimum place i think to the vortex tube black is your original
brown is the ash box

tritowns

Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:50 pm Topic: Re: 5gallon propane tank
the cross sectional area of your exhaust outlet should be the same as your riser.

copied pasted what tritowns told me it does work

im not saying it dosnt however tritowns admits this

Published on Nov 19, 2012

built this small rocket stove heater for one of my small steel structural insulated panel buildings.

took awhile to figure out how to make it work, gotta get the fire really ripping at the chimney before letting it come forward to the vertical feed tube.





but between tritowns and this build theres a difference of 3 things
a dual feed
and a longer tube before the split into the gas bottle
a feed size difference ( possible )

making changes to someone elses design could affect the whole dynamics of the build

i would reckon the tube that is used is 3"

Gadily, if you pause the last video you posted at 18 seconds, you'll see flames on the left side of the feed tube attempting to come back up the tube. It's one thing I don't want to happen to my RH system so I'd like to have the feed tube closed (lid) and if anything add air intake close to the burn area of the feed tube (on the sides maybe).
I'm definitely going to cut the sections you marked on my drawings and redo everything from the riser out. I'm heading to the metal company tomorrow to see what they have in the end cut section that I can purchase for a new firebox and feed tube system.

i noticed that but i also noticed the wind on the day it was taken i have seen it happen while doing my own build
even with a working one ive seen it blow back into system something ive got to change yet as this is caused by chimney in wrong place and not being pulled by air currents

the reason why suggested is its better to have a bigger firebox that provides enough fuel to keep the chimney hot enough but also has the added effect of less filling times per refill

with the builds using the vortex design we are effectively closing the drafting area but in creating the vortex we are allowing it to suck upon the system therefore pulling the flames from a larger burn box

a rough idea and tested 4 3/4" reduced down to 2 1/4" and inserted with a secondary air square tube 1" entering a vortex 4" pipe it has a pull on it

so a 4" tube reduced down to 2 3/4" is more than ample for a good pull through of flames adding secondary air to the mix on the outside would be more than ample of running that stove

however as seen by other videos works well on another type of build



so dont throw away build it as a travel rocket burner

hey lizard, how is it going on the stove

Roach.. I've been too busy to actually work on it. I apologize for not coming in a posting a quick update for the lack of postings. I'm hoping to be able to get back on it next week unless we continue to have nice weather, if we do I'll be working on getting my garden ready for planting.

i know what you mean been busy also i have also been playing with mine outside as you know mine plugged up in the middle of the elbow now i maid a tee with a cleanout also changing the inside basket i am getting some black smoke comming out i hope the basket will fix that

Hey look what the cat dragged in....."Yes, I'm alive!"

OK.....where do I start on this update.....decisions decisions.....  First things first.....the rocket heater isn't dead...she's very close to being done.

Next, I got side tracked in life for a year but I'm now fully focused on the heater since I got my new shop built (12' x 30' x 8') (photos to come I promise).  
Last week's cold snap in Virginia put a little flame on my butt to get this thing running so I have heat in my shop!! (whatever it'll take I guess!).

Now for the heater update (sorry photos are not ready but will be coming soon).  I cut a section out  of my base and riser just above my burn chamber and welded in a 1" ID square tubing and added a shutoff valve to the intake of it.  Once that was done this week, I placed my main tank on the base and welded it up so it's ready for the portland/perlite mix which will fill the base up until about 1-1/2" below the discharge pipe.  I'm currently (today) cutting the lid mounting brackets to secure the lid to the main tank and try to keep the overall (Steampunk) design on the heater.  Once the brackets are finished and welded on she'll be ready to be wired brushed and prepped for high temp paint.  I'm planning on doing a afternoon burn outside to set the paint and cement mix on the heater.  
Once it's ready to hookup inside the shop I'm going to get some steel pipe from the metal supplier here in town to use for the chimney piping.  I still need to get a wall thimble since I plan on going out the rear of my shop and then up along the outside.  The price of stove piping is crazy, I figure since the heater's exhaust shouldn't be that hot exiting the heater, I shouldn't need the expensive piping for it.  Once it gets through the wall it shouldn't be an issue outside.  So my plan is to go straight out the back then put a T connection 1 foot away from the outside wall and mount some pipe holding brackets to the outside of the shed.  
The heater was originally designed to burn wood but I'm considering adapting it to burn pellets also.  
I'm thinking if I'm working in my shop all day I don't want to have to mess with feeding the heater every hour with small sticks of wood. The last photo shows the extension I built for the feed tube so I could burn longer pieces.  It will slip right off if I want to go with the short feed.  
The second photo is showing it without the extension tube on it and you can see my secondary air feed on the top of the burn tube.  And of course the first photo is my new freshly painted shop.  I'll post a video this weekend on the heater.  Sorry it's taken so long.  Hope everyone is going great and their rocket stoves/heaters are running great!! I'm sure I have a lot of catching up to do on the forum also.

nice to see you back cant wait to see the performance of the rocket stove

you might want to rethink the extension on the fuel chute that could have reverse flow become the chimmey

ROACH wrote:

you might want to rethink the extension on the fuel chute that could have reverse flow become the chimmey

My thought on it was, if I start out with the standard feed chute to get the heater primed (riser hot) then slide the extension on and put longer sticks in the feed tube so it'll burn longer.


UPDATE: Just came in from packing the base and outer riser tube mold with the portland Vermic. mix. Got a heater and Quartz floodlights pointed at the heater to start drying the mix slowly. I'll post a photo after I get done eating (currently grilling a 1 pound hamburger for dinner.

Depending on how setup the concrete mix is tomorrow, I might start on prepping the outside for 2 coats of high temp paint. Then on Sunday I'll probably take it outside and make a small fire in it to start drying the riser mix slowly. I'll look around for wood that doesn't normally burn very hot and use it if I can. But tomorrow will no doubt be a full day of grinding and wire wheeling the outside of the heater. I made some mounting brackets of the top and they need some grinding to get the correct design I want for them. I've also go to do some adjustments on the lid fit since the tank warped a little bit during welding so the lid doesn't easily fit down on the rim now. I'll probably do those adjustments towards the evening and give the riser time to dry some more before getting too rough with the thing.
Anyway....got the grill going so I need to get back out there and cook my hamburger.

Talk to you all later.
Lizard

OK so I went back out to see if I could get the form tube off the riser so portland mix could dry faster and I had no problems taking it apart in two layers.  I took the outside half of the tube off by splitting the cardboard and spinning it around the riser as I used a pry bar to pull it away from the other piece. Worked great.  Next I started pulling the inside layer which was soaked from moister off the portland mix so it came off easy.  I was really happy with the results, tight, good shape and my name and year stamp worked out great.  But then I realized that the flat square edge along the outside of the riser was awful close to the lid when I put the lid on the tank.  I realized that I was reducing the airflow space by about half and that wasn't good.  Sadly I had to take a knife to my newly formed riser and name stamp and shave off about an inch all the way around the riser. (see last photo).  I have a lot of work tomorrow on it so I'm not sure how much updating I'll be doing because I definitely want to run a burn test on Sunday.

nice build there

please note many builders break there molds during first fire up of them my advice build a fire outside of it then throw the coals into the bottom riser

or

use a few sticks to only fire it quickly but not to get to high heat you can fire it this way as well but i allowed a few days for it to dry out before firing it with the small sticks

I also fired it a few times before going to a full fire up of the vortex chamber

Appreciate the suggestions Gadily. I'm definitely not going to fire it up too hot, don't want to take the risk of drying it too quick and cracking it. Might try burning a couple of pieces of charcoal and dropping them down to the bottom of the tank and then put the lid on it. It'll catch some of the heat but the exhaust pipe would still be open so some of it could escape, plus the lid won't close tight so some should sneak around the edges of it.
While that's going to I'll work at grinding the mounting tabs and using the wire wheel on the outside prepping for paint.
It's a little crisp this morning (frost on the ground) so I turned the electric heater on inside the shop to get the chill out of there.
More updates later today. Have a great weekend all.

Looks great the casting. Can't wait until the next updates
I am really getting sold on the cast riser idea

nice build i dont use any refractory lets just see if it will do any better it start easier everyday it will hold more heat at the heater on the boiler i work on it was 100 decrees per hour then shut down for 12 hours to cure refractory on the cells we have but they are two foot thick 12 foot tall with expaned steel in the middle of it

ROACH wrote:

you might want to rethink the extension on the fuel chute that could have reverse flow become the chimmey

Correct....it did.  I don't know if a full chimney piping would have helped make a strong enough draft or not but when I put the extension on and went to feed it wood the flames came right up the extension tube.  I took it off.

List of problems:

1. The burn box isn't big enough so I can't get enough heat generated (major problem).
2. My ash box door malfunctioned. The nut or bolt must of gotten hot and caused it to lock up so I couldn't open the door.  I ended up breaking the nut weld off the side of the ash box.  Now I can't open the door because the nut is still attached (and frozen) to the bolt, which is fed through a guide bracket on the ash box.  I'll have to see if vise grips can help get the nut loose, if not then I'll have to cut it off.
3. Did I mention the burn box wasn't big enough?  Oh I did......  That's going to be a big problem since cutting that out is going to get tricky and replacing it with a 8"W x 10"D x 10"H burn box and building doors that won't fail on me (no more use of bolts and nuts).
4. My lid gasket won't stay in place so I'll have to get some fireplace chalking and see if I can't stick it to the groove I built in the lid for it.  The gasket is to help seal the lid when it's on the tank.  During this burn I didn't use it and there was heat and smoke escaping from the joint.  Not much but it was still an air leak and that I can't have on this thing.  

Right now I have it cooling down to let the riser dry.  I'll probably clean it up and haul it back to work again next week to use the plasma cutter to cut off the ash box and burn chamber on it.  I'll have to run up to the metal supply place and see if I can't get a scrap piece of square tubing for the burn box.  

"Not so close to finishing this project it seems!!"

I smell like smoke.....yuck.

note always test these stoves with a 10 ft chimney pipe as i found out it can give false readings when testing what could be a fail could be a pass

your system is fine to use pellets or maybe wood shavings but not for burning wood

as goes for heating i strongly believe your system is way too small to heat the size of building that you have

for a small build i built a turbo stove 2 that will heat 11' x 9' x 7' high

https://woodstoves.forumotion.co.uk/t863-turbo-rocket-stove-2-build

gadily wrote:

note always test these stoves with a 10 ft chimney pipe as i found out it can give false readings when testing what could be a fail could be a pass

You know gadily I was thinking about that last night and was wondering if I put a ten foot piece of pipe on the exhaust, if it would draft better.  

gadily wrote:

as goes for heating i strongly believe your system is way too small to heat the size of building that you have

for a small build i built a turbo stove 2 that will heat 11' x 9' x 7' high

I'm currently working on insulating the shed/shop right now. I'm cutting insulation boards for the rafters and will be putting fiberglass batting on the exterior walls also. I really just want to knock the edge off a cold shop and not get it to where I can't be in it because it's too hot. 65 to 70 degrees is probably the highest I want it to go during the winter time. Plus I'm in Virginia and lately we haven't had much of a winter around here. Lowest temp so far this winter...23 degree in the early morning...1 day and here it is January already. 2 weeks ago it was 70 degrees.

gadily wrote:

your system is fine to use pellets or maybe wood shavings but not for burning wood

Actually I've been thinking about doing that (burning pellets) because I don't want to have to keep an eye on the heater all the time feeding it wood scraps. I'd have to design a different grating in the burn box to handle burning pellets and dropping the ash into the ash box. Then I'd have to build a pellet feed box so I could put 10-15 lbs of pellets in at once and have it auto feed. I'd also have to have some type of feed cut off valve to stop the flow of pellets when I want to shutdown the system for the day.

I think I'll work at getting the exterior chimney pipe attached to the shed and get the thimble installed so I could hook a pipe to the heater and test it the correct way.....which is through a complete chimney system that pulls a draft. One thing is for sure, I'm going to heat the shed with some type of fireplace so the chimney is a must no matter what.

Since it's a holiday there's no place open today so I'll have to get the piping next week and build mounting brackets for outside the shop to support the chimney pipe. I wanted to go straight out the back of the shop wall and then turn up but I'm wondering if I should run at least 6-8 feet of chimney pipe inside first before turning to go through the thimble and outside? Do you think having the pipe turn straight up first would help better with the draft than having it go straight for 3 feet before turning up outside? I'm worried about losing exhaust heat before it can help pull a good draft. If it's outside right away it might cool down too fast??

Well.... today my wife wants to have a BBQ rib cook off. She's going to use a pressure cooker and I'm going to do it the old fashion way....smoking it for 4 to 5 hours low and slow. She says she can make ribs in less than an hour.
She showed me a photo of someone that did them this way......the meat looks gray. yuck.

Going to go fire up the grill and get mine on the smoker now.

Happy New Years all.

roach has been running pellets within his system for a while now

happy new year to you as well

Pulled the top off to inspect the riser and see how the Portland mix is drying. The cement has no cracks and seems to be hardening just fine. I did notice some ash had gotten up and over the top of the riser.
So the next step is to get the chimney setup installed and fix the ash door latch. Once I have the chimney done I can retest the heater and see if it performs good enough or if I need to cut the burn box off and make a larger one.

On a different note...

Here's a photo of the ribs I was smoking yesterday... they turned out great!!

now thats rubbing it in lol